Rein Attemann, Puget Sound Advocacy Manager
Bill Becker, Business Partnerships Lead
Minta Crafts, Events Manager
Joan Crooks, CEO
Evan Escamilla, Major Gifts Manager
Madeleine Foutch, Field Organizer
Julie Gonzales-Corbin, Administrative Assistant
David Gorton, Grants Manager
Kat Holmes, Field Organizer
Natalie Jamerson, Communications Associate
Becky Kelley, President
Cathy Lehman, Voter Education and Outreach Director
Kathy Malley, Development Director
Kerry McHugh, Communications Director
Erin Miller, Associate Director of Development
Kristi Nakata, Communications Associate
Darcy Nonemacher, Legislative Director
Sean Pender, Administrative Director
Sasha Pollack, Climate and Clean Energy Campaign Director
Rebecca Ponzio, Oil Campaign Director
Mark Powell, Puget Sound Program Director
Sameer Ranade, Climate and Clean Energy Campaign Associate
Lisa Remlinger, Evergreen Forests Campaign Director
Danielle Shaw, Puget Sound Program Associate
Griffin Smith, Development and Data Associate
Paula Swedeen, Forest Policy Specialist
Clifford Traisman, State Lobbyist
Sabrina Upadhyay, Climate Field Organizer
Bruce Wishart, Puget Sound Legislative Consultant
Rein focuses on engaging our members, activists, and public on all things Puget Sound. For the past six years, Rein was the Advocacy Manager at People For Puget, where he: organized the annual lobby day for the environmental community, generating grassroots support during the legislative session; built a diverse stakeholder coalition building on oil spill issues; managed activist, interns and volunteers, and helped garner public support for a strong Action Agenda for the health of Puget sound. As regular visitor to Puget Sound, he moved here in 2004. Two factors drew Rein to the Sound- being a Pisces and his childhood spent on the beaches and salt marshes of Buzzards Bay in Massachusetts. San Juan Island's beauty and its archipelago landscape bring solace, calm, and appreciation to him. Plus, he loves picking his own oysters at the Westcott Bay Oyster Farm. When not at work, Rein loves to travel, bike, hike, sail, cook, and sauna in his back yard, all the time with his wife Marcy.
email: rein at wecprotects.org
Bill joined WEC in 2014 and serves as a contracted SVP Climate Fellow in efforts to find common interests and build constructive relationships between the WEC and the business community. Bill graduated from the University of Washington with a BA in Urban Planning, Seattle University with a JD, and New York University with an LL.M. in Securities Regulation. His first involvement with the WEC was in 1976, when he was the attorney representing the groups opposed to the construction of a super tanker port at Cherry Point. He is an Adjunct Professor at Seattle University School of Law.
Bill has been active in the business community since the early 1980’s, serving in senior management, with corporate development and operational roles, of very large, global corporations in the technology and hospitality areas; as a founder of technology start-ups; and, as an advisor to other significant organizations. When Bill isn’t at WEC, he can be found with his two sons and working out.
email: billb at wecprotects.org
Minta joined the WEC development team in 2014 as Events Manager. She leads WEC’s fundraising events: Summer Swell and the Green Gala. Her work focuses on providing opportunities for supporters to engage, learn, and give – creating a community of supporters with a deep connection to our work, one event at a time. Minta brings seven years of development and events experience to this role and has worked on a wide range of issues from k-5 education to the arts. Most recently, Minta served as the Development Specialist at Powerful Schools, where she helped shape their event and development strategies.
Raised in Oregon with a family of nature-lovers, Minta has always had a deep appreciation for the outdoors. She is honored to have the chance to protect the bounty of natural resources found in Washington through her work here. Outside of work, Minta is an avid dancer and also keeps busy with snowboarding, volunteering, hiking, and spending time with her friends and family.
email: minta at wecprotects.org
A long-time leader in Washington’s environmental community, Joan started working at WEC in 1992, served as Executive Director in 1995-2014, and has served as CEO since 2014. Joan was instrumental in developing the now nationally-recognized Environmental Priorities Coalition, the successful collaborative of over 20 groups that works together for strong state environmental protections. Joan is often sought out for her insight and judgment on environmental issues by state policy makers, other advocacy groups, and foundations. Her guidance and vision have helped WEC combine its 40 years of experience with innovative strategies resulting in strong environmental protections for Washington state. Prior to joining WEC, Joan served as Administrative Director of Earth Share of Washington. Joan has a bachelor's degree in chemistry from Middlebury College, as well as a master's degree in public administration from the University of Washington Evans School of Public Affairs. She has served on numerous boards including Sierra Club Seattle Inner City Outings, the Washington Wildlife and Recreation Coalition, and the State Environmental Leadership Program. In addition to working for environmental protection, Joan also enjoys spending lots of time outside, especially hiking with her husband Don or racing her kids down the slopes.
email: joan at wecprotects.org
Evan is the Major Gifts Manager for Washington Environmental Council. After college, Evan left the flatlands and Great Lakes of Michigan to work in Washington’s National Parks at Mount Rainier and at Olympic National Park on the Elwha River Restoration through the Student Conservation Association (SCA). He then went on to join the SCA development team in Seattle where he brought in funding to support underserved youth development and conservation service. Always up for a type II adventure, Evan enjoys skiing, climbing, backpacking, cycling and cooking.
email: evan at wecprotects.org
MADELEINE (Maddie) FOUTCH, Field Organizer
As a WEC organizer, Maddie builds political power for the environment by recruiting, developing, and mentoring environmental leaders across Washington to take action in their communities. Prior to this work, Maddie served as Project Coordinator for Washington Environmental Council’s Aquatic Reserves project. In that role, she coordinated committees of local residents to engage in the protection of Puget Sound's most special places, our local Aquatic Reserves.
Outside of the office, she enjoys exploring the urban and wild areas of Washington, building community through cooking and eating food, and fighting for social justice. Maddie is a graduate of the University of Washington with degrees in Environmental Studies and Business Administration.
email: maddie at wecprotects.org
As a Northwest native with strong environmental sensibilities, Julie is thrilled to provide administrative support for WEC. Her Seattle-based career choices are a veritable box of chocolates; social media strategist, small business owner, school registrar and legal assistant. A life-long learner, Julie holds a BA in Social Sciences from the University of Washington, a certificate in Nonprofit Fundraising Management, and is currently working on her Social Media Strategy and Implementation certificate. Julie loves a great hiking trail and trains for half marathon events.
email: julie at wecprotects.org
David handles WEC's membership program and other fundraising duties. Prior to joining the WEC team, David worked in fundraising at Earthjustice and at advertising agencies in San Francisco and Michigan. He has a bachelor's degree in History from Eastern Michigan University. David tries to spend as much time as possible outside. He is rather fond of telemark skiing, riding his bicycle, growing very local foods (aka gardening), and backpacking with his wife Susan.
email: david at wecprotects.org
Katherine (Kat) Holmes serves as Field Organizer for Washington Environmental Council. She fell in love with field work as an Organizing Fellow with Fuse Washington and is excited to help build coalitions and develop grassroots power for the environment throughout Washington state, Kat grew up in Kent, Washington, fell in love with Puget Sound at Salt Water State Park, and graduated with a degree in Biology/Ecology, from Western Washington University. A teacher and community builder at heart, she spent 15 years teaching martial arts and leading volunteer projects with Starbucks in Bellingham. She moved back to Kent to be closer to her mother, became active with 350 Seattle and WEC and is ready bring a racial justice lens to environmental advocacy. Kat loves coffee, food, farmers, poetry and can be found training and playing outside in her free time.
email: kat at wecprotects.org
Natalie produces WEC's publications, campaign communications, and multimedia projects as well as managing the website. A graduate of Whitman College with a degree in Biology-Environmental Studies, Natalie brings experience and enthusiasm for translating WEC’s technical work into engaging, digestible information for the public. She has previously served as the Whitman's Sustainability Coordinator, worked with the Grand Canyon Trust, was a Climate & Clean Energy intern at WEC, and held other positions that have grown her interest in environmental issues of the Pacific Northwest. You can find Natalie playing with local Ultimate Frisbee teams, cross country skiing, and mapping out new runs around the city.
email: natalie at wecprotects.org
Becky joined WEC in 1994 and has led successful campaigns on sustainable forestry and helping to defeat the irresponsible development initiative—Initiative 933. Working closely with architects, developers, and educators, she led WEC's 2005 campaign to pass Washington's first-in-the-nation law requiring public buildings to meet green building standards. Currently, Becky serves as WEC President and has previously directed WEC’s Climate and Clean Energy Agenda to pass strong policies to reduce climate pollution and transition to clean energy, as well as staffing our ongoing sustainable forestry work. She feels lucky to have a job where she can help bring people together to create solutions to complex problems, even though it involves an unnatural number of meetings. She has a bachelor's degree in International Studies from the University of Oregon, and prior to joining WEC, taught English in rural Japan. Becky lives in Seattle with her husband and daughter and enjoys gardening, singing, eating her husband’s excellent cooking, and playing outside.
email: becky at wecprotects.org
As Voter Education and Outreach Director, Cathy provides leadership for grassroots, organizing, and voter engagement efforts for our major environmental community campaigns. A native Seattleite, she graduated from Western Washington University with a BA in Communications and studied green business with Bainbridge Graduate Institute at Pinchot University. She’s traveled around the world and taught English in China, and worked mainly for nonprofits and environmental efforts in Bellingham, WA. Her favorites were helping build Sustainable Connections, a green business network focusing on sustainable business initiatives, heading up Bellingham’s Green Power Community Challenge, and 4 years running the Whatcom County chapter of Futurewise. She served on Bellingham City Council for 3 years, her final year as President. She joined WEC because, “in the grand scheme of things, addressing global climate change is probably the most important work I could possibly be doing with my life.” She spends her free time trying new pescatarian dishes, covering long distances by foot, and photographing her kitties, Monster and Knowing.
email: cathy at wecprotects.org
Kathy leads the overall fundraising and development activities for both Washington Environmental Council and Washington Conservation Voters, and works with Becky Kelley and Shannon Murphy on strategic organizational development issues. Kathy has over 20 years of fundraising experience, nearly all of it in the environmental sector. She was lured back to WEC/WCV after a six year absence, during which time she worked as the Development Director for Resource Media, a nonprofit communications firm that specializes in environmental policy debates. During her tenure there she helped to nearly triple the organization’s budget, and as a member of the organization’s management team, established the structure and systems that successfully guided Resource Media through this period of rapid growth. From 1995 to 2005, Kathy was WEC’s Development Director, creating the organization’s overall fundraising framework. Kathy is a graduate of Colorado State University and also has a certificate in Non-profit Management and Fundraising from the University of Washington. She and her husband are slowly remodeling an old home and restoring its gardens. When not pondering which native plants grow best in dry shade or how to repair a stone wall, they spend time riding their bikes and hiking.
Kerry directs WEC’s communications work: conducting media outreach, writing and editing for external and internal publications, and working on WEC's strategic campaigns and agendas. A native Northwesterner, she worked as a congressional staffer in Washington, DC. Prior to joining WEC in 2007, Kerry spent a year teaching English to high school and university students in Hue, Vietnam. She has a bachelor’s degree in International Studies from Johns Hopkins University. She enjoys reading, taking various international dance classes, and is an enthusiastic fair-weather hiker. Having exhausted herself investigating Seattle’s pho options, she is now on a quest to find the best bakery in Washington.
email: kerry at wecprotects.org
Erin’s been a part of the WEC fundraising team since 2012, and for two years managed and provided strategic oversight to the organization's signature events. Currently Erin manages WEC’s Annual Giving and Business Sponsorship programs. A fundraiser for 7 years, Erin has a background in leading fundraising communications campaigns, managing large scale events and developing business sponsorship programs. Formerly the Development Coordinator at Outdoor Outreach in San Diego, CA, Erin spent three years working to secure local and national fiscal support to ensure access to the outdoors for disadvantaged youth. A graduate of Western Washington University, Erin holds a dual degree in Communication and Journalism/Public Relations. In her free time, Erin enjoys exploring the outdoors with friends. She is an active rock climber, yogi, mountaineer and hiker.
email: erin at wecprotects.org
Kristi manages WEC's social media and email communications and is a recent graduate of Seattle University with a degree in Environmental Studies and Biology. She was previously a climate campaign intern with WEC and also interned with King County's Water and Land Resources Division. In her free time, Kristi enjoys painting, cooking, and finding the cheapest happy hour on Capitol Hill.
email: kristi at wecprotects.org
Darcy advances WEC’s legislative campaigns in Olympia. Darcy has more than a decade of experience in environmental law and policy issues including land and water conservation, renewable energy development, water law, air pollution reduction, sustainable agriculture, and salmon and steelhead recovery. In addition, Darcy managed high-profile election campaigns in several states and worked with the AFL-CIO to create an affiliate organization for non-union households. Darcy has a bachelor’s degree from the University of Connecticut and a J.D. from Seattle University School of Law. When she is not in the office, Darcy enjoys gardening, whitewater rafting, hiking, camping, and cheering on the Sounders and the Green Bay Packers with her husband and young son.
email: darcy at wecprotects.org
SEAN PENDER, Administrative Director
Sean Pender worked at WEC for the first time from 1997-2000, when he was the Office Manager/Development Associate. Starting in 2001, he worked at an organization that provided technology consulting services to nonprofit conservation groups. Over the course of his decade there, he mostly did administrative and HR tasks, with healthy dollops of IT support, fundraising support, Salesforce administration and proofreading thrown in. Starting in January 2013, he’s back for another round, excited to be working as the Administrative Director for WEC and WCV.
Sean has a degree in Political Science from Western Washington University and in his spare time he enjoys riding his road bike, reading non-fiction and yelling at the TV during soccer games along with his wife. But their daughter hates soccer so she has begun the process of believing that her parents are crazy.
email: sean at wecprotects.org
Sasha Pollack is a Northwest native – growing up just south of Portland. After studying Environmental Studies at Oberlin College and spending nearly three years in Mali, West Africa as a Peace Corps Agriculture volunteer, she was delighted to return to the Pacific Northwest. Growing up in a progressive activist household, she participated in various environmental campaigns throughout her life, but began her professional political career in 2006. Since then she has worked as a policy analyst in both local and state government. She moved to Seattle in 2011 and is excited to work on climate and clean energy in Washington. She loves cooking, gardening, and related crafts. You’ll often find her exploring Puget Sound by foot or by recently acquired sailboat.
email: sasha at wecprotects.org
Rebecca manages our oil campaign working to stop terminals and ensure the safe transport of oil currently coming through our region. Rebecca has worked to implement and develop environmental policies for over a decade. Most recently, Rebecca worked for five years at the Puget Sound Partnership in its implementation branch. There, she supported partners across the Puget Sound to implement salmon recovery and integrated it into broader efforts to recover Puget Sound. She has a dual master’s degree from the University of Washington in Urban Planning and in Public Administration. When not working, Rebecca loves exploring our waterways and mountains with her husband, cooking, gardening, and hunkering down to read a good novel on the couch.
email: rebecca at wecprotects.org
MARK POWELL, Puget Sound Program Director
Mark directs our Puget Sound program, dedicated to making Puget Sound as healthy as it is beautiful. Mark has a long history in ocean and fish conservation, including nearly a decade leading Ocean Conservancy’s fish conservation efforts and 3 years leading the World Wildlife Fund’s global seafood program based in Switzerland. This has included policy advocacy, public campaigns, business partnerships, litigation, and more, with a focus on ending overfishing and restoring ocean ecosystems to health. He is a marine biologist and his work has taken him from salmon streams to the halls of Congress to fish farms in rural China and Vietnam. He is a northwest native who enjoys our ocean, coasts, rivers, and mountains and he finds Seattle’s seafood to be the best in the world. Just for fun, Mark swam around Bainbridge Island where he lives with his wife and 2 children and attends a lot of swim meets and soccer matches.
email: mark at wecprotects.org
Sameer joined WEC in 2014 to work on coalition building and policy development to advance WEC’s climate and clean energy objectives. Prior to joining WEC, Sameer worked in a wide variety of government, election, and advocacy roles. His work experience includes various positions on the Hill and the Washington State Legislature, multiple Presidential and Congressional campaigns, and numerous internships at energy and environmental entities, including the White House Council on Environmental Quality. He holds a B.A. from Washington State University and an M.P.A. from the University of Washington. In his free time, Sameer enjoys reading, writing environmental poetry, drinking coffee, fishing, and simply soaking in the view of Seattle’s beautiful environment.
email: sameer at wecprotects.org
Lisa joined WEC after many years of experience in the environmental community and non-profit world. Before coming to WEC, she was the Senior Project Manager at NatureBridge working on the Elwha Dam removal project in Olympia National Park. She also worked as the Chapter and Government Relations Manager for Audubon Washington, the Statewide Advocacy Coordinator for the Arc of Washington and as staff to a Thurston County Commissioner. Lisa chaired the local chapter of Thurston Conservation Voters for two years. Lisa's now enjoying living the urban life in downtown Seattle and spends her free time running, hiking, skiing, and eating yummy foods in the market.
email: lisa at wecprotects.org
DANIELLE SHAW, Puget Sound Program Associate
Danielle joined the Puget Sound program team in 2015 after providing WEC with contracted research support on several projects. She is a graduate of Western Washington University, where she received a bachelor’s degree in Environmental Policy and Political Science. While earning her J.D. from Lewis & Clark Law School, Danielle gained experience in international and domestic environmental policy clerking for NOAA’s Alaska Regional Counsel and the International Environmental Law Project. Since finding her way back home to Seattle, Danielle spends much of her free time exploring the Duwamish, sitting around a campfire, and jogging with her pup.
email: danielle at wecprotects.org
Griffin joined Washington Environmental Council as a Development and Events Intern in February 2014 and was lucky enough to continue as part of the Development team after his internship ended. Griffin grew up on the Olympic Peninsula and then traded one side of Puget Sound for the other when he moved to Seattle to attend the University of Washington, where he received his degree in English and Political Science. You can find Griffin near the water, out on a hike, or enjoying a jog on any of Seattle’s many running trails.
email: griffin at wecprotects.org
Paula staffs WEC’s Evergreen Forest agenda. She has worked on forest conservation issues in the Pacific Northwest for 24 years and has been consulting for non-profits throughout the country over the past six years on ecosystem conservation and restoration policies with a focus on creating ecosystem service payments and markets involving carbon, wildlife, and water to improve management on private lands above regulatory requirements. She has served on the Washington State Forest Practices Board since 2010. Earlier in her career, Dr. Swedeen worked for the State of Washington (DNR and WDFW) for 12 years as a wildlife biologist and policy analyst on endangered species conservation in forests. She has a B.S. in Biology from Indiana University, a Masters of Environmental Studies and Political Science from Western Washington University, and a Ph.D. in Interdisciplinary Studies with an emphasis on Ecological Economics from the Union Institute. She lives in Olympia with her partner and loves to hike, go birding, work in her garden and raise Nigerian Dwarf goats in her spare time.
email: paula at wecprotects.org
Clifford has been the contracted state lobbyist for both Washington Environmental Council and Washington Conservation Voters since November 2002, responsible for the lobbying programs for both of these statewide environmental organizations. Clifford has over 25 years of public and private sector government relations experience both in Washington State and Washington, D.C. During his 11-year tenure in D.C., Clifford held positions as a political consultant; a staff member and congressional investigator for the House Energy and Commerce Committee; and as a federal lobbyist in the private sector. Since arriving in Seattle, Washington in 1995, Clifford has held senior level local government posts as a legislative assistant for Seattle City Councilmember Martha Choe and as the City of Seattle's Director of Intergovernmental Relations under Mayor Paul Schell. Clifford is a graduate of the University of Kansas and lives in Seattle with his wife, four children, and two dogs.
email: clifford at ctassociates.org
Sabrina is the Climate Field Organizer for Washington Environmental Council. A graduate from Macalester College in Environmental Studies, she has worked at Macalester's Sustainability Office for two years. Sabrina has worked with non-profits around the world campaigning for Clean Water Action, organizing events for Do It Green! Minnesota, and interning with Clean Energy Nepal, where she educated children on the effects of air pollution and climate change. In addition to working on environmental issues, Sabrina loves to dance, hike, and travel.
email: sabrina at wecprotects.org
BRUCE WISHART, Puget Sound Legislative Consultant
Bruce has provided contract support and represented nonprofit environmental groups before the state legislature for 27 years. He served as Lobbyist and Chapter Director for Sierra Club from 1987 until 1999. Following his work at Sierra Club, he was hired by People For Puget Sound as Policy Director, where he worked for the next 12 years. In 2012, he formed a public affairs firm in Olympia which represents several nonprofit environmental organizations.
Bruce has extensive experience working on campaigns both inside and outside the legislature, with particular expertise on Puget Sound related issues. He was a leader in the Initiative 97 campaign, which resulted in the Model Toxic Control Act (1989) and he also played a major role in the adoption of Shoreline Management Act regulations (1995). And most recently, he helped pass the Oil Spill Act (2011) and phase out copper brakepads and copper bottom paint on boats (2010).
Bruce is a graduate of the University of Oregon School of Law (J.D. 1985), where he received an Ocean and Coastal Law Certificate.
Jessa Cameron, Summer Campaign Intern
Jessa is an incoming senior at the University of Washington, studying political science and sociology. Originally from Los Angeles, California, living in beautiful Washington state has sparked her passion for the environment. In her spare time, Jessa loves exploring and cheering on Seattle sports teams, and she plans to one day own a boat.
Jon Casamayor, Summer Campaign Intern
Jon has a bachelor’s degree in marketing and a certificate in nanotechnology. Inspired by his father, an advocate for sustainable business practices in South Florida and Latin America, Jon wants to contribute to our clean energy future. His interest in environmental sustainability grew even further when he conducted solar cell research at the University of Washington. He loves learning about clean energy technologies and enjoys tinkering with electronics.
Brenda Fernandez, Development & Events Intern
Brenda was born and raised in Bellevue, Washington. She's an undergrad pursuing a double major in political science and communications at the University of Washington. In high school, Brenda planned various types of events and the largest student run fundraiser in Washington. After white water rafting for three weeks down the Colorado River in 2010, she grew a passion for protecting our natural resources. Since then, she have been pursing events and PR internships to strengthen my advertising and event coordinating skills. In my free time she likes shopping, hiking, and exploring Seattle with friends and family.
Faye Kennedy, Swim Duwamish Intern
Faye is currently a student at Seattle University, pursuing a degree in Environmental Studies and Ecological Systems. Being from the Pacific Northwest, she has a deep interest in our local marine ecosystems, along with restoration and conservation efforts being made to protect them. Faye enjoys spending her free time in the outdoors with her two dogs.
Nicole Kim, Summer Campaign Intern
Nicole is a rising senior at Duke University who is double majoring in Public Policy Studies and Environmental Science and Policy, with a focus in environmental ethics. An avid animal lover, Nicole researches at Duke’s Canine Cognition Center—an evolutionary anthropology lab focused on better understanding the social cognitive abilities of canines. In her spare time, she enjoys hiking, rock climbing, horseback riding, and attempting to create short documentary-like films.
Amy Imsdahl, 2015 Legislative Intern
Amy stems her curiosity and passion for the environment to the outdoor adventures she had while growing up in Minnesota. She moved to Seattle in 2012 and is currently a senior at the University of Washington, pursuing a degree in Environmental Studies. Outside of school, she enjoys hiking, running, camping, fishing, and exploring her new hometown.
Cady Moris, Summer Campaign Intern
Cady's passion for the environment grew from her experiences in nature that came with growing up in the Seattle area. She is especially interested in environmental education and how experiences in nature can foster love and respect for the environment. While her studies pursuing a Bachelor of Science in Environmental Policy and Management have led Cady to learn about environmental issues across the globe, she is excited to focus on her home state this summer. This September, Cady will be returning to the University of Redlands in Southern California to complete her senior year and work on student government as Sustainability Representative. In her spare time, Cady enjoys hiking, paddle boarding, scuba diving, and exploring farmer's markets.
Michaela Murphy, Summer Campaign Intern
Michaela is currently a student at Vassar College, where she is pursuing a degree in Political Science, with minors in Chemistry and Philosophy. Her studies surrounding the intersection of politics and science piqued her interest in environmental justice. Michaela was born and raised in Seattle and is excited to be back home and working to protect the natural resources of the Pacific Northwest. In her free time, she likes to cook, do the crossword, and experiment with beekeeping and raising chickens.
Keanu Reynolds-Rivera, Summer Campaign Intern
Keanu is from Tacoma, Washington and just finished his junior year at the University of Washington- Seattle. He’s majoring in Conservation Biology and minoring in Environmental Studies and Urban Ecological Design. Keanu has a strong interest in environmental policy and sustainable infrastructure and would love to one day have a career that marries the two. In the past year Keanu has spent his time volunteering for the Washington Bus, a progressive advocacy organization, and his campuses student-led sustainability fund. In his free time he enjoys reading Grist articles, going on runs, watching movies and hanging out with friends.